I have OCD which causes me to question my salvation

For a long time, I have been doing my soul searching and studying God's word in the bible everyday. When I was growing up, I believed in God and Jesus but I wasn't worried too much. I thought about my desires and what I wanted. In November, 2008, I lost my baby with Michael. That time was so hard for me and I was scared to death. But I am glad it happened to me... because it made me look up to God more and wanting to be closer to Him and Jesus. I want our Father in Heaven to be proud of me. I realized that nothing else matters in the Earth, only God and his Son matter.

I have problems. I am not always happy. I am fearful because of the intrusive thoughts. I have Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. I have it since I was 9 years old. I want to tell you what kind of OCD I have.

Worrying daily about- What if I won't go to heaven? Is God mad at me? I have sins everyday, do I must be perfect to be sinless to make God proud of me, curious about life after death after moment you die, what if I will have cancer, what am I going to do without my mom in the future when she goes to heaven? What if I am not saved? I also hate to see people's hands movements sometimes and I don't know why. I hate this so much. I take prozac for depression and ativan to stop my panic thoughts.

I go to OCD therapy every 2 weeks. My OCD therapist keeps telling me that OCD is not my fault. It's disease.

I have sin. I am living with Michael for 3 years. We have been together for 6 years. 3 years ago, he asked me to marry him and I got a beautiful engagement ring and I was so happy. We planned to get married soon but.. one day we found out that if I marry him, I would lose money and health insurance. I wanted to get married, to leap in faith but my parents told us to wait. I cried and cried. I am not sorry that I love him but I am scared that God will punish me. My parents and Michael said, "don't worry, you will get married." I can't stop worrying... I want to able to enjoy being God's daughter without worrying so much.

Erin

My response is in Green:

I don't know what you to tell you, you have sin and it needs to be stopped. Your therapist tells you that OCD is a disease, but that is just bunk. OCD like all the other so called mental illness are not diseases they are people looking inward at self instead of outward toward God. You worry about going to heaven because you refuse to trust God. Read the Bible God tells you how to know for sure that you are going to heaven, but you won't listen to Him, so you worry about it and the world calls that OCD. No that is being self focused. You need to change your focus to God.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. [NIV]

So you want to go to heaven? Then confess your sins, turn from them and trust God. As long as you allow the world to tell you that OCD is a disease and it isn't your fault, then you will continue to have the same problems. It really is that simple, start trusting God and give Him your worries, but you have to also give up the sins.

Ralph

Her boyfriends response is in Blue below:

Ralph

I understand you are trying to help and point people in the wrong direction, but looking over your e-mail, its obviously you are very ignorant of the matter at hand. You are letting your own personal belief's get in the way of your understanding of God and people themselves.

My guess is that you've never had to spend much time with someone who has OCD or the like. Years ago, I might of said something similar, unknowingly hurting someone due to my own lack of understanding. However meeting Erin and spending the time I have with her has completely open my eyes to the kind of world she is forced to live in. I have seen and been around many people that are like what you described, absorbed in themselves to the point they turn from God. What Erin goes through is NOTHING like this. She is struggling day in and day out over certain things that she so desperately attempts to control but cannot. And to have someone like you state to her that all her struggles and pain is simply “bunk”, is not only hurtful, but also increases the torment in her. You have been placed where you are by God to help his children, not to cause them to stumble.

My suggestion to you is to take some time and pray and be willing to learn. Living in this world and not becoming the world does not mean you should also be ignorant of the world. Just like Moses needed Aaron to talk with the people, due to his own shortcomings. You ether need to open your mind to issues out there with people or have someone who understands aid you in your ministry.

Now I don't know you or your spiritual journey specifically, however judging from your email I can clearly see you are ether stepping out of Gods path or overreaching your bounds. Because God places us in a ministry equipped, and you do not seem all that equipped to deal with certain issues that face people. Erin struggles day in and day out with these thoughts, and absorbs herself in the bible and studying to get through it. I help her sometimes, but there are times she has a moment of weakness and says or thinks the wrong thing about God. After calming down she opens her eyes to the truth. But negative words that you gave her will stick in her mind, possibly all her life.

I suggest you ether become close friends or get to really know someone with a similar disorder. That way you may learn that not everything that goes outside your understanding is simply “Bunk”. This closed minded approach will only end up hurting others.

We are working out our issues because we love God and wish to become more pleasing in his eyes. Perhaps you should do the same. Again I don't know your heart, but your understanding is ether causing your hard heartedness to show, or (As I suspect) you are simply ignorant of whats going on and speak these hateful words unknowingly.

Expect a very angry E-mail from Erin, and rightly so. Much of what she says will come out in pure emotion. I may be able to speak more clearly because your words were not directed toward me. But she has every right to be upset.

If you don't believe what I am saying, then by all means, email me back with some sort of evidence and we will discuss it.

Michael

My response is in Green:

Wow, I will answer you and Erin both, but I find it almost laughable to do so. Why? Simple, did you bother to read Erin's e-mail to me? Let me quote just a little from it:

I want to tell you what kind of OCD I have. Worrying daily about- What if I won't go to heaven? Is God mad at me? I have sins everyday, do I must be perfect to be sinless to make God proud of me, curious about life after death after moment you die, what if I will have cancer, what am I going to do without my mom in the future when she goes to heaven? What if I am not saved?

Well, let's see she thinks she has a disease because she often questions whether she will go to heaven. She admits to sinning, including living with her boyfriend outside of marriage, oh, that's right that would be you wouldn't it? Her therapist tells her she has OCD which isn't her fault, so don't worry about these feelings. Great advise according to you, but what would the Bible say? Well it would say that when we sin the Holy Spirit convicts us of that sin, so I guess now the Holy Spirit is OCD and He is a disease.

Yes I should get an angry e-mail from her, after all just look at the horrible things I wrote her:

You need to change your focus to God.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. [NIV]

So you want to go to heaven? Then confess your sins, turn from them and trust God. As long as you allow the world to tell you that OCD is a disease and it isn't your fault, then you will continue to have the same problems. It really is that simple, start trusting God and give Him your worries, but you have to also give up the sins.

How could I be so cruel as to tell her to quit sinning and confess her sins and then trust God? But hey I am certainly not surprised you didn't agree, after all if you did you would be agreeing that you too are living in sin and you too need to confess your sins and get right with God, better to attack the messenger than to actually deal with the problem.

I love how you tell me I was put in this place to help God's children but I am doing a bad job of it. Really? Telling someone that sin in their life is causing their problems and telling them they can have assurance of their salvation IF they will turn from their sins and come to God is wrong? Sorry buddy, but I won't just take that from you or anyone, no one likes to be told they need to quit sinning, but it is what it is.

I didn't just randomly write you or Erin, she wrote me, she wrote me because of my webpages and she gave me her problems and I answered her, you just don't like the answer. But as I said I understand why you don't like the answer, but that is between you and God. Go ahead and keep enabling Erin by telling her none of this is her fault, but don't be surprised when she doesn't get better or find the help she needs, oh that's right you don't want her to find the help she needs because it would end your live in relationship wouldn't it?

I could have told her not to worry about her salvation, but I won't pat someone on the back as they follow the road to hell. The Holy Spirit convicts people for a reason, and they should listen to Him. Let me leave you with one more thought, because it applies, you can disagree all you want but your argument is with God not me. Read this passage and tell me is Erin the description of the first person or the second?

Jeremiah 17:5-9 [5] This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD. [6] He will be like a bush in the wastelands; he will not see prosperity when it comes. He will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives. [7] "But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in him. [8] He will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green. It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit." [9] The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? [NIV]

She wants desperately to be the second person, but you and her therapist are keeping her the first person. Sad.

Ralph

Her response is in Blue:

Ralph,

I wanted to get angry with you and yell at you and tell you bad things about you after you called my problem is bunk. But I won't do that. Yes, I am hurt and kind of nervous, I admit it. I am forgiving you. I understand that you don't understand the mental problems and panic attack disorder as diseases. I feel my heart is telling me to drop it and forgive you, just like God already forgave us. You think I don't trust God or think about myself? That is not true, believe it or not. I love God and Jesus with all my heart.I believe in Holy Spirit is with me forever and a comforter whenever I feel scared or hurt and guide me. I just want to please God because He is our Father, period! I trust Jesus as my personal savior. I believe while I make mistakes everyday and cannot be perfect and no matter how hard I try, I trust Jesus as my savior that His blood has already covered in my sins and my spirit has righteous with God because I have been born again when I believe and accept Jesus in my life while my fresh still makes mistakes. Do you think I enjoy sinning with my body and sins of this world??? Nope! I can't wait to get away from here to be with my Father in Heaven and Jesus. I would be so much happier and alive in Heaven than here. I love Jesus because Jesus loves me and saves me. How to get in Heaven? Not by our works, He is the way, the truth, the life. He offered me his gift without me having to earn it because He loves me and I accept. Praise Jesus! Thank you so much....

Thank you for opening my eyes to appreciate Jesus' huge gift for me.

Erin

My response is in Green:

I copied you in on my reply to your live-in boyfriend. I could care less if you are angry at me or if you forgive me or not. I didn't seek you out, you wrote me, I am sorry if you didn't want the truth. But I will tell you the truth, I feel sorry for you because until you deal with the spiritual side of your problem nothing else matters. You are now trying to claim your sins don't matter, okay go ahead and convince yourself of that, but it is a lie and you will never be free until you face that. Have you read this passage?

Romans 2:1-3 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. [2] And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. [3] But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? [NASB-U]

So you tell me about your sins, and yet it appears you ignore the passage above and believe you will escape judgment for these sins. Yes I called your OCD diagnosis bunk and I stand by that, the Holy Spirit is convicting you and drawing you to repentance so you can be the saved person He wants you to be and whom you claim to want to be, but your boyfriend and your therapist and telling you this isn't your fault, just ignore the Holy Spirit because you have a disease. Okay, what you do is up to you, but let me give you one more passage to read and think about:

Hebrews 10:26-31

 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [27] but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. [28] Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [29] How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." [31] It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

You seem to believe we will continue to sin daily until death cures us of our sinful nature, but again that just isn't biblical:

1 John 3:9-10 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. [10] This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. [NIV]

Also look at this:

Romans 6:16-18

 [16] Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey-whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? [17] But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. [18] You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

If you haven't been set free from sin, then you need to go back to the cross and get what you missed, not just ignore it.

I hope you will really think about what I am telling you. Forgive me for caring about your soul, forgive me for telling you the truth, I don't care, but I happen to care enough to take your e-mail and Michael's and still respond. I will leave you with one last quote, just so you know that either King David had OCD or he too had sins he need to deal with, you be the judge:

Psalm 38:1-8

A psalm of David. A petition.

 O Lord, do not rebuke me in your anger

 or discipline me in your wrath.

 [2] For your arrows have pierced me,

 and your hand has come down upon me.

 [3] Because of your wrath there is no health in my body;

 my bones have no soundness because of my sin.

 [4] My guilt has overwhelmed me

 like a burden too heavy to bear.

 [5] My wounds fester and are loathsome

 because of my sinful folly.

 [6] I am bowed down and brought very low;

 all day long I go about mourning.

 [7] My back is filled with searing pain;

 there is no health in my body.

 [8] I am feeble and utterly crushed;

 I groan in anguish of heart.

The cure for David and the cure for you are the same, cry out to God, turn from your sins and follow Christ. Or ignore the Holy Spirit lean on man's wisdom and claim victimhood and hope against hope that I am dead wrong and God will just wink at your sins on judgment day. The decision is yours.

Ralph

The boyfriends response is in Blue:

Interesting response. You ignored most of what was said, repeated what you believed, threw in some scriptures that have no relevance, made claims that do not hold, and condemn yourself with your own scriptures.

I agree I am not happy with our situation, but you are implying that we simply don't care about sin or try to diminish it. If you haven't learned anything about current law, it does seem to push many couples that want to get married away from it. We have made a commitment before God and everyone. I moved to another state to move in with her and her parents because of no choice. We met online. Her disability makes it difficult for her to ever work, especially in this economy. There is many more but I don't like to give full details to strangers online.

Whats interesting is you use scriptures to condemn yourself. I know the verse very well about judging. I have spoke against your words, not you. I stated I do not know your heart, but from what you say, I can come up with a pretty clear picture of how you present yourself. If I was wrong in any way you could of clarified, yet instead you only confirmed it more. You have been the judgmental one, not myself or Erin. She came to you for guidance (Out of her OCD), and yet you caused her and continue to cause her to stumble.

You clearly are too closed minded, at least it seems so by your words, to understand what a mental disorder is. You can view the evidence of OCD in the brain and by behavior. Again I say you've most likely, because of your response, never have been close to someone like this. You really don't understand it at all and try and use the scriptures in a way it was not meant. Remember Abraham and his fear. He lied and caused sin on many occasions with his wife, yet was never harmed for it, because of his heart for God. God decided to work with him the way he chose, knowing him better than he even knew himself. God works with everyone differently.

Erin is a very faithful and caring young woman. God has guided us and taught us in so many ways, as he does with everyone.

I am not ignoring any of those scriptures. Not once have we decided that sinning was alright and to just keep going it without care. He whom says he is sinless is calling God a lier. We know we have our struggles and work on them in time with Gods help.

Good day.

Michael

My response is in Green:

Pretty much the response I expected. I won't bother going back over all this, it is a waste of time for both of us. I would like to address one thing; the idea that the scripture I quoted condemned myself. Did you actually read the scripture? It isn't about judging, it is about telling the world that they are sinning while doing the same things, and then expecting not to be judged for it. Why would I quote that? Simple, because we as Christians tell the world that living together before marriage is wrong, we even as a society call it living in sin. Yet you and Erin do so and expect to avoid judgment. Now you would have a point if I were living in sin with my girlfriend and telling you that you were sinning, but that doesn't happen to be the case. You can claim any reason you want, like the fact that she will lose benefits if she marries you, fine, then don't get married, but don't live together in sin either! Which is more important to you following God's commands or losing money? I guess we both know the answer don't we?

But even if that passage were just about judging, you would still be wrong, why? Simple again, because you and Erin both, but Erin first, told me you were sinning. So how is it judging to agree with and believe what someone tells us? So you tell me you are sinning and I tell you that it needs to stop and you need to ask God to forgive you and I am condemning myself? Sorry doesn't make sense.

You said it isn't true that you don't care or try to diminish your sin. Okay, what sin, since I am wrong to judge that you are sinning? Like I said I am not going to waste time going back over this, but you should decide whether you are sinning or not. If you are then stop and confess your sins and allow God to cleanse you. You can call that judging or an attack or whatever you want, but it is still the truth.

Ralph

Her final response is in Blue:

The blood of Christ is the ultimate proof of God's love. "God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him" (Romans 5:8,9). He "loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood" (Revelation 1:5).

I asked Jesus to be my savior and I was sorry for my sins. I meant it in my heart and He forgave us. You can't take that away from us. You don't scare me anymore. You don't know NOTHING about us and how we feel. You had no right to judge us. I trust Jesus, not a stranger like you. Don't judge people when they have asked Jesus in their hearts. I hope you get it. No more talking to you, Have a good life.

Erin

I find this whole exchange sad. She wrote me because she questioned her salvation and wanted assurance, but she also made it known that she understood that she was sinning. I tried to help by explaining to her that if she would turn from her sins, confess them and ask for forgiveness she could be assured of her salvation. This isn't want she wanted to hear, she just wanted to hear that sinning is okay. And why is this ongoing sin happening? From what they wrote it is happening because if she marries this man she will lose her medical coverage. So instead of keeping the medical coverage and not living in sin, they just justify their sin by claiming there is a reason for it.

What I find so sad is that she is telling me that she trusts God, but she is also telling me that she doesn't trust God. See what she is saying is 'I trust God to ignore my sins (I trust Him with my eternity) but I don't trust Him to help my in this life (I don't trust Him to provide for me if I lose my coverage)'.

Don't be fooled God, won't be made a fool of by anyone.

Galatians 6:7-8
    Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. [8] For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. [NASB-U]

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Posted Feb 2010