Isn't it our fellowship and not our relationship we can lose?


I really enjoy your site. Thank you for putting up some of you stories from your days on the street.

I would like to read your view on a thought of mine concerning OSAS.

If I turn from my earthly father and say I don't want to be associated with him again, has our relationship been broken or has our "fellowship" (for lack of a better word) been broken? I believe he is still my father and I his son. I can do nothing to ever change that. The relationship is in blood.

Thanks again for the good site.

My response is in Green:

Thank you very much. As for your question, of course your earthly father is still your father. And I understand what you are trying to get at, but it goes deeper then that. I have pondered this question too and I will share what I have found on it.

Let's start with the parable of the Prodigal son. I won't quote the whole thing here but I do want to quote a couple of verses.

(Luke 15:31-32 NIV) [31] "'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. [32] But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'" Notice how the father describes the 'relationship' with the Prodigal? He was dead, he was lost. I have to think Jesus was trying to make a point.

Now let's look further. I want to quote just a verse or two from the genealogy of Jesus listed in Luke: (Luke 3:38 NIV) the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Adam is called the son of God. Now my question is, did Adam lose more then just his fellowship with God? Of course he did and we are all under a curse and condemnation also because of what happened to Adam. So that son, did more then fall out of fellowship.

If you look at the Hebrew words you will find that Angels are often called the sons of God. We also know that Satan was an angel and he fell and will spend eternity in hell along with 1/3 of the other angels.

My point is this; people say that when we are saved we become sons and daughters of God and I would not disagree with that. However, to say that means we can never again come under judgment is to forget about Adam and the angels who rebelled. You also have to ignore the clear meaning of the parable of the Prodigal Son. He was dead and lost and only alive and found when he returned. But don't miss my point none of these people were thrown out of the family, they all chose to leave, through rebellion. That is my point, we can't take God's grace for granted, we must continue in our faith.

So although I see your point, I don't think it is a reason to believe that once we are saved nothing we do matters. Let me ask you a question. This is kind of an off question but I think it is something we should consider. Was it possible for Jesus to sin while He was a human? Don't miss what I am asking, I believe that He lived a totally sinless life, but I also believe it was possible for Him to choose to sin. If it had been impossible for Him to ever sin as a human then what was the point of Him being human? If on the other hand it was possible for Him to have sinned and if He had done so, then we know He could not have paid for our sins. Are you with me so far? Now my question is this, if Jesus had sinned and therefore could not have paid for our sins, would He have still been the Son of God? Of course He would have but that would not have changed the fact that He sinned and therefore was under His own condemnation and could not be our Savior.

Trust me I know this is all absurd, but I think it makes a valid point. Just because we are sons and daughters of God, does not mean that we are allowed to do as we please and not follow God.

Well I did not mean to make this that long. I truly enjoy discussing things with people because it helps me search and study. I also appreciate your gentle spirit, many times I get attacked because I don't agree with people. I just want to give you the bottom line. As long as we follow Christ we are eternally secure, no one and nothing can take that away from us, we have eternal life. So as long as we continue in the faith we will spend eternity with Christ. I have turned my back in the past and I praise God that He did not give up on me, but kept at me until I came back.

God bless you.


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