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One of the things that I attempt to do while surfing the World Wide Wed is witness to people about Jesus Christ. I do not try to condemn anyone or belittle their beliefs, I only try to tell them about Jesus.

These responses have come from e-mail sent to me about the message of Jesus Christ.

NOTE: Anything that I sent in an e-mail will be in GREEN
Any reply from someone else will be in BLUE
Anything in BLACK is just a comment but not part of the discussion with the person.

I received more responses than just the ones listed below, however, the rest of the e-mails were primarily just vulgar expressions of hate. If I censored them for posting there would be nothing left to post.

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matthew 5:11-12

"Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7

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Dear Sir,

I have thorougly examined this website for a religion assignment. I attend a Catholic High School in Illinois and am a Junior. First of all, the Catholic church teaches you that salvation comes from the SACRAMENTS, not the Church itself. The sacraments of Baptism, Eucharist (<--two most important), Confirmation, Last(not necessary, anyone can do this really) Rights. I am not sure what sacraments other religions have, but if they have these, according to the Church they CAN be saved, not guaranteed.

And in fact, Catholics do NOT tell people not to read the Bible. They don't say anything on the matter really. It is just kind of there for you. I read it and the only thing that I understand are the Gospels, they are straighforward and to the point. Everything else can be comprehended in so many ways, literally or contextually. It is unfathomanable for any one person to know everything and comprehend everything correctly. (Catholics believe in the context). Personally I understand the whole thing better when a priest explains it anyway, even then, multiple meanings can be withdrawn from the reading(s).

Thanks for writing me. I also thank you for correcting me, I have never meant to misrepresent the Catholic church. However, I am not sure we really differ on what we are saying. You say that Catholics don't believe the church saves you, okay, but what I said was that Catholics believe that if you are not part of the church you won't be saved. Could that be because only the Catholic church is allowed to preform the sacraments?

If I am wrong I am truly sorry, but that is not really my problem with the beliefs of the Catholic church anyway. You say that the church does not save you but that the sacraments do. I disagree with that, I believe what Jesus said: (John 14:6 NIV) Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I believe that the sacraments are worthless unless you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior. He is the ONLY way to get to heaven, and you can know that is where you are going, without any doubt. (John 11:25-26 NIV) Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; {26} and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" Notice that Jesus did not talk about the sacraments anywhere in those passages? If we were saved by the sacraments wouldn't Jesus have mentioned them?

You say I am wrong by saying that the church discourages Bible reading. Okay again I think there is a fine line between what we are both saying. You say the church does not say either way it is there if you want to read it, yet you say that no one can understand it. That is my point the church stresses that to understand the Bible you need a Priest or someone else to explain it to you. To me that is discouraging people to read it for themselves. Why would someone read something they are told they won't be able to understand? I believe that the Bible is God's Word and that if you read it and ask Him He will help you understand it.

I am not against Catholics but I will tell you if Sister Teresa did not accept Jesus Christ as her savior (and I am not saying she didn't, I have no way of knowing) then she is not in heaven. Period. No amount of good works will save you, no amount of sacraments will save you, only Jesus Christ can save you. I did not say that the Bible clearly says it, and anyone can understand it if they will just read it for themselves. That is my problem, if the church does not stress salvation through Jesus Christ then they are not doing anyone a service. You made the statement that anyone who does the sacraments CAN be saved, not guaranteed, I am telling you that you can be guaranteed a place in heaven. You don't need anyone to pray for you after you die either, in fact that would do no good. (Hebrews 9:27-28 NIV) "Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, {28} so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him." See Paul is saying that you die and then there is the judgment, if you have not accepted Jesus as your savior in this life it is too late no matter how many people pray for you.

The Bible is easy to understand, maybe not every verse at first, but the more you read it and ask God to reveal to you what it means the more you will understand for yourself. You said it is unfathomable to believe any one person could understand everything in the Bible, but then you say that you understand it better when the Priest explains it to you. Don't you see if no one can understand it why trust the Priest's interpretation of it?

I am not trying to give you a hard time, but I want to stress to you that the Bible says that the only way a person is saved is through Jesus Christ, no more no less. That is truly the only important thing in all of Christianity, because without that you are lost. We can disagree on everything else but the Bible does not leave any room for disagreement about this. (Acts 4:9-12 NIV) If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, {10} then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. {11} He is "'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.' {12} Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Again notice that it says there is no other name by which we must be saved.

(1 Corinthians 15:1-4 NIV) Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. {2} By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. {3} For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, {4} that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

(Ephesians 2:4-9 NIV) But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, {5} made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. {6} And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, {7} in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. {8} For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- {9} not by works, so that no one can boast.

(Titus 3:4-7 NIV) But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, {5} he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, {6} whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, {7} so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

None of these verses are hard to understand, they all say exactly what they mean. Whether you agree with me or not, I would ask you to just ask Jesus Christ into your heart as your savior. It really is that easy and it is guaranteed.

Take care and please feel free to write me again if you like.

Ralph Dettwiler

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You believe the bible is gods word because it (the bible) says so. You believe god is the creator of the bible because it (the bible) says so. You believe the bible is perfect because god wrote it and he is perfect and you know this because the bible says so. The bible proves god and god proves the bible. All these lines of evidence come down to words on a page in a book. What about If either was wrong you're the whole fails but you would never know as there is not external reference. I could write the same on a piece of paper; would that make it right? No as it would be circular reasoning to assume that the two pieces of evidence (both presented only on that piece of paper) add up to proof. There would in this case only be one source of evidence and so with no corroboration (and to prove an extraordinary claim extraordinary corroborative evidence is required) the evidence is circular. One proves the other which proves the one which is a circular argument and so logically false.

Thanks for telling me what I believe. There is just one problem, you got it wrong. You make a bunch of assumptions with no basis at all.

Before I go any further, let me say right up front, that I am not here to prove anything to you or to convert you or to force my views on you, however, since you wrote me I will assume you would like to hear my response. In the end I have no illusions, you will believe whatever you want to believe. You will either be open to looking at things intellectually or you will be closed minded and no matter what I say or its validity you won't look at it objectively. I wanted to point that out so that if you think you can distract me or crush me by refusing to listen to my points, you won't. Been there done that. I will, however, respond as if you are a true seeker of truth who is interested in my view.

First you assume that I believe the Bible is God's Word just because it says it is. Further you believe that I believe God wrote it because again it says so. Both have an element of truth in them, but you are wrong on the overall assumption. I have looked at the Bible objectively, have you? Have you read it? You can tell me anything you want, because I have no way of knowing the truth, but you can't lie to yourself. You have either truly read the Bible and looked objectively at what it says, or you are only parroting what you have heard. There is no third option. So if you have never really read it and taken a deep look at what it says and what it means, you owe it to yourself to do so.

As I said I have. I grew up in a Christian home and was taught that the Bible was God's Word. That was fine while I was a child, but you know what I grew up in the age of distrust and true to my generation I distrusted everything I was told. I walked away from my faith when I joined the Marine Corps as Vietnam was winding down. I led a pagan life just as much as anyone who did not grow up in a Christian home. For nearly twenty years I was away from God and His Word. Don't for a moment think that one day I woke up and "remembered" those childhood beliefs, it does not happen that way. After the Marine Corp I spent 7 years as a Police Officer. I held no illusions about anything after that. I saw death up close and personal. I even thought about suicide. I had an emptiness inside that was all consuming. At 30 years old I felt as if I was 80. I did not trust anyone or anything.

So what has this got to do with believing the Bible? Well, my point is that I was not a blind sheep who believed anything just because someone (anyone) told me. I got out of Police work because I realized it was destroying me. I did not come back to God quickly or easily. I did realize there was something missing in my life but I refused to admit even to myself that it was God.

When I finally did let Jesus back into my life He changed me. He gave me a peace I had never really known before. He was no longer part of my Father's religion, now He was my personal Savior. He changed my life, and by doing so proved to me that He is real. Then... I started reading His Word, but I still did not take it at face value, I studied it. I look at what people say are inconsistencies. I also looked at what the Bible was compared to every other book that has ever been produced. You know what I found? I found that the Bible can stand on it's own and prove itself as God's Word.

So if you have an open mind, let me ask you a couple of questions. If you will truly look for the answers to these and open your heart and mind objectively I think you will find what you are looking for. Here they are.

1. If the Bible is just a book written by a bunch of guys to fool the world, or even because they were simpletons who did not understand anything, then how is it that it has changed so many lives? How has it managed to stay in existence when so many people and governments have tried to destroy it?

2. Again if it is nothing but a book, how do you explain all the things that were predicted thousands of years ago that are just now coming true? Be honest with yourself, don't just write it off and say they were predicted after the event. In fact don't look at the ones that happened long ago, look at only the ones which have come true in the last 100 years. Here is an example. In Revelations it says that in the end times two witnesses will be killed in Jerusalem and that the whole world will watch their bodies laying in the street for three days. Now that was written almost 2,000 years ago and it was impossible until when? The Gulf War! That is when CNN was able to telecast live pictures via satellite to the whole world. Not bad for a prediction by an uneducated fisherman 2,000 years ago.

3. How about the Jews as a people. They are different then any other peoples group. No other group has ever been dispersed throughout the whole world and yet after 2,000 years retained their ethnic identity. Better still this too was predicted 2,000 years ago. It was predicted that the Jews would be dispersed throughout the whole world but that sometime later they would become a nation and would have struggles over Jerusalem. What happened in 1948? Wow pretty good for a book that is just fairy tales!!

4. In His Word, God says that we are not to take His name in vain. How do you explain that in almost every civilized language in the world the names God, Jesus and Christ are used as curse words? Have you ever heard some one exclaim, "Muhammad! I'm so mad!" or how about "Buddha!! I can't believe you said that!!" How about Allah!! Now be honest that has to make you wonder, what is so special about those names? I won't even tell you what I think, you have to answer that for yourself. Or not, its up to you and how honest you really want to be with yourself.

I am sorry this has gotten to be so long, but it is hard to answer questions like you posed in just a few lines. If you have further questions I would like to try to help you with them, if on the other hand you are closed minded and just want to attack me, don't bother, as I said: "been there done that," got bored.

I will pray for you.

Ralph Dettwiler

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Hello,

I happened upon your site and I wanted to ask you a question. You aren't very clear at the beginning of the page. Under the section titled "So How are You Forgiven These Days?" you have two contradictory ideas.

You say that the path to salvation is to "believe that Jesus is God" but the quote to support your statement reads "if anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God." (1 John 4:15)

Which belief and idea are you identifying with? The belief that Jesus is God or that Jesus is the son of God?

Thank you for your time.

Thank you for the question and I think it is a good one. If you just read what you wrote it does sound contracditory but if you go to the very top of the page where I try to explain the Trinity you will see that God is three personalities and one of those is called the Son. Therefore, the Son of God is Jesus Christ, Who is also God. As I said on the page it is a hard concept for us to understand.

God the Son has existed forever, He created the world, yet He is the one whom God the Father sent to earth as a human (while still fully God). The point of 1 John 4:15 is that anyone who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God is acknowledging that He is God. Many sects claim that Jesus is either now God or is just below God. They say that because they believe that He lived a good enough life to be promoted by God to god status. The problem with that is if He were a mere human to start with He could not have died for our sins, He would have had to die for His own sins. Only by being a holy sacrifice could Jesus be our Savior, and He could not be a holy sacrifice if He had sins of His own.

I hope that shed some light on what I believe. I hope I did not muddy the waters any further, but if I did please feel free to contact me and I will take another stab at it.

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I think someone's a bit self righteous. I found links to your pages in the guest book of fallen star, you seem intelligent, but apparently not intelligent enough to understand that Christianity is totally outdated and obsolete.

I myself, am Nihilistic, and for lack of a better word, antichristian. Not Antichrist... but antichristian.. I have no real conflict with most of Christ's philosophy, which is mainly peace, love and harmony. Yet somehow, people are so ignorant that they can misinterpret this to an extreme. I mean, I'm 14, I go to High School, I get spit on for wearing a "God Is Now Here/God Is Nowhere" T-shirt, or a "beLIEve" T-shirt, now why should I get spit on and judged by a religious group who's entire salvation depends upon being loving and understanding and non-judgemental? This bewilders me. Again, hypocrisy in Christianity. If there is one thing I truly cannot tolerate, it is hypocrisy. I find most Christians to be Hippocrates.

Also, I think that by forbidding everything that mankind is instinctually inclined towards and craves (i.e. violence, lust, gluttony, sex for pleasure, anger, etc.) Christianity is a way of creating a hell on earth. What you call original sin, I call human nature. I am not ignorant in my non-conforming to Christianity, I have read the bible cover to cover several times, and I find it to be an outdated guide to life, last month's TV guide is the best analogy I can think of for the bible today.

Most of the Christian friends I have are clueless, just yesterday my friend Rafael refused to acknowledge the fact that Christ was a Jew. I find that by being Christian today, is nothing more than sadly clinging to a crass, outdated dogma, for a lack of individuality. Christian's willingly admit that they are "the lord"'s flock of sheep and he/she is their shepherd. I would never ever flock with the rest of the herd to have sense of belonging and salvation. Sure I feel like crap sometimes, but I'd rather feel like crap than be full of crap. I am my own shepherd. I mean sure I belong to but not in the same sense of Christianity. I belong to, for example, The Marilyn Manson fan club, this doesn't mean I worship or even follow Manson, merely wish to show my support for what he does. The "spirituality" you feel, I feel too, but I do not mistake it for an external, supernatural, all powerful entity, I know it is me. I have what you call "the lord" in me, in my heart, but it is merely your humanity, not some divine deity. God is in you, you are your own God. Thanks for your time, please contact me if you find anything I've said interesting and I can arrange a real time chat.

Well thanks for writing to me. You are right there is a lot of hypocrisy among Christians. I will not defend that, but to say all Christians are that way is being blind to the facts. You want to paint us all with one brush, but you would not want to be painted that way.

You said you have read the Bible cover to cover several times, that is great if it is true. I have a problem believing it is true if you still think that the Bible is just outdated crap. How do you explain the predictions in the Bible that came true hundreds of years after they were predicted? Don't bother telling me that they were written after the fact. In case you did not know, it can be proved. But don't let facts stand in your way of belief. Now if it upsets you to think that I don't believe you have really read the Bible several time cover to cover, let me ask you why I should? You see you said that what is wrong with the Christianity is that we try to change natural behavior. Well lying is natural to humans, so why would you bother to tell me the truth? I on the other hand believe that conduct is a sin, so I have a reason to be honest with you. See my point? Probably not, but which one of us is refusing to put his biases aside?

Do you really think that the world would be a better place without morals? Maybe you did not read all of my pages. Try going to my main site: http://www.iserv.net/~rdett See I was a cop for almost 7 years. I have seen what human beings do to each other in a 'moral' society, I can imagine what it would be like without morals. Sex for fun, sounds good until someone wants sex with you and you don't want sex with him! Stealing is nice, you don't have to work for anything, until someone steals everything you own. Who cares if a person lies, until you need a doctor and you don't know if he is lying to you or not. Violence, again great fun, until it is against you.

Everyone I have ever talked to who wanted to do away with laws and morals, sure did not want the biggest baddest dude after them once the law was gone. All you really want is the freedom to do whatever you want to, but that causes a lot of victims and sooner or later you would become one too.

God loves you enough to make you happy when you die. Either you will accept His free plan of salvation and spend eternity with Him and be happy, or you will reject it because you don't want anything to do with Him or His plan. Well He will give you that wish too. Hell is the complete separation from God. It is just what people are demanding of God, to be left alone! Are you sure that is what you want?

You said you think I am being "self righteous." Tell me how, if you really read my page you would have seen that I have done some terrible things in my past. I am ashamed of a lot of what I have done. Is is self righteous to say that I found God's forgiveness through Jesus Christ? Did I condemn anyone? Well in a way I did, by quoting the Bible which says that we are all sinners and will be punished unless we ask for forgiveness and accept Christ as our savior.

Some of the things you said are more true than you realize. While you were reading the Bible several time from cover to cover, did you see the part right up front near the beginning where Adam and Eve sinned? How about the curse that God then put on mankind because of their sin? You see you are right, it is human nature to do and want the things you talk about, but believe me allowing everyone to do as they please would not make a better place to live. Every human knows in their heart what is right and what is wrong, that is where laws came from. If there is no God and therefore no need for moral law, why is it that every society has rules?? Not just Christian societies, every society. Even gangs who denounce Christianity and God have rules. Must be something in our makeup, huh?

Well I enjoy a good discussion, so if you would like to continue I would be happy to. I don't often find the time for a real time chat so it will have to be through e-mail. Take care.

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before/if you go to my site i advise you only go to the 7 Churches by adding /7Churches.html to the above url.you will be highly offended by the rest of my site,i'm sure.that's not to say 7 Churches won't offend you,but it'll let you know a little about how i feel on this subject.now i inform you what people mean when they ask how you how you can beleive in such evil (or however they ask it) . they mean all the death and murder commited by your "God" as well as ordered by him. does that clear it up for you?now i have a question for you.if your "God" and lord jesus christ want people to beleive in them,why don't they just hsow themselves?i don't beleive in the bible as a divinely inspired text.quoting from the bible does NOT convince those of us who require solid proof.i exist.i can physically feel and see myself.that is proof to me that i exist,not someone using words telling me i exist.do better. also i want to know what you think about people who have never nor will ever know about your "God" and jesus christ.a majority of those people lead good lives.do you believe that all of those people are going to go to hell? I dare you to even attempt to rationally and logically answer that one. Fallen Star

Thanks for visiting my site and for signing my guestbook. Also thanks for warning me about your web site, but you didn't need to. I visited your whole web site and it did not offend me. It made me sad that you are so upset about someone who according to you does not even exist. Of course without religion where would Marilyn Manson be, right?

You it is hard to discuss things like this with people like you. I don't mean anything mean by that, but on the one hand you claim that I am a simple minded fool because there is no God. Then on the other hand you say the reason people ask me how I can believe is such evil (my religion) is because my "God" has committed or ordered the murder of so many innocent people. Which way is it. If there is no God then of course you should agree He could not have done anything, right? If there is a God, like I believe, then you are all wrong, right? So how am I to answer your question? I can only answer from my own perspective and that is that God is alive and He is the creator of every thing including Mankind.

I will try my best not to quote any scripture to you, since you seem to have such a problem with it. I will rationally and logically explain my point of view. Again I have to make some assumptions because your questions are so open ended. First assumption, I got this impression from your page; you think of Christians as Catholic. I am not Catholic and to be honest I disagree with a lot of what they teach. I will agree that many people have been killed in the Name of Jesus and the Name of God. However, you can't just say because of that God is bad or that religion is bad. You have to first do a little study and find out what the Christian religion thinks of people killing other people. We (Christians) believe it is wrong!!! When a person who claims to be a Christian kills an abortion doctor, it is wrong. It is a sin and it shows that the person is NOT following the Christian religion.

On your page you have a lot of Satanism graphics, etc... So I will assume that you are a Satanist (yeah I know you don't believe in or worship Satan/the devil either). Now if I am right about you being a Satanist, how do you feel when all Satanist are portrayed as worshipping Satan and sacrificing children? You know there are some very well documented incidents where a group of people who claimed to be Satanist did do just that. Now I am sure you will say that they were not really Satanist, they were just crazy people. You are probably right, but are you beginning to see my point? Just change the names and you have defended the real Christians too.

You say that you exist and you won't believe anything that you can't see. Why doesn't God just come show Himself to you? Well He could do that and believe it or not one day He will, but He requires us to have faith. He could also make all of us worship Him and again one day He will, but if He did that now what would it mean? Nothing!! If we have no choice then we are slaves. If you don't believe in God then where did we all come from? Evolution? Please don't tell me you believe that, not after telling me you have to see to believe. There is much more proof in the Bible than there is in Evolution. Do the math. Do you have any idea what the chances are on just one cell coming into existence by random chance? Now multiply that number by the billions of different cells it takes to make up a living human/animal. Wow if you believe that you have more faith than I have ever thought of having. I just don't have enough faith to believe that two gases came together a zillion years ago and now here I am. I can enjoy music (sorry I don't call Marilyn Manson music), order pizza over my cell phone and type messages to you on a computer, and it all started by to inert gases. Wow, and of course I am to believe that without any proof, because, well you know we have not advanced far enough yet to be able to prove it. Maybe after another zillion years we will be able to prove we came from two inert gases.

Now to get to what I think was the best question you asked. What happens to all those people who have never heard of God or Jesus Christ? It is hard to explain without upsetting you and quoting from the Bible. Paul addressed this very point, but here goes. I believe that God put in every persons heart several things. First is the knowledge that they are immortal. Yeah that is right, I believe you are just as immortal as I am. The problem is where you will spend eternity, but that is another discussion altogether. Next He put the knowledge of a superior being in everyone's heart. Why else does every society which has ever existed looked for God, in one way or another? Even you have, I read it on your page, 'we are our own gods.' Look at people who believe in reincarnation. They claim that they don't believe in God, yet, they claim if you live a bad life now you will come back as a victim. Who says?? Who decides who has to be victims and who gets to have a good life next? Must be someone in charge!

Sorry I got side tracked. My point is that people can look at nature and at each other and see God. They might not know Who He is, but they can know that He does exist. God loves all humans and He has enough grace to give to all of us. For those who try to know Him, even if they have never heard about Him or Jesus, His grace will cover them. No I don't believe they go to hell. This might surprise you too, but I think there are different levels of punishment in hell. I don't believe that the person who never heard of God, but did not even try to obey what they knew in their heart, will be judged the same way someone who has heard and rejected will be judged. The more you know the more you have to answer for. I am sure you have heard the saying, ignorance of the law is no excuse, well thank God He does not judge like that. I would love to discuss this with you further, but this is getting to be pretty long.

thank you for answering,and so promptly at that.i also didn't mention that you might like pseudo-serenity.did you?now on to the response.

in my writing i use a combination of personal experience,metaphor,shock value and the world around me,ex;sweet solution was in both by the fatal beating of a gay man in texas,and the "christians" who protested his funeral.some others use metaphor like in lower your hand.i wrote as if i was talking to jesus.i'd also like to state now that i don't hate all christian,christianity or you.could i do without christianity?yes.could i do without christians?i have friends and family who are christians.if doing without christians meant doing without them,then no.could i do without you?i don't know you.now i've gotten off track,somewhat.i'm not upset about someone i don't believe in.i hope i've cleared that up.

not that i feel i should stick up for marilyn manson,and i'm not being rude even though it might come off like that without telling you first(seeing you can't hear me say it)but...without marilyn manson christians (you know the ones i'm talkin' about) would just find someone else to blame,for whatever they feel like.

we're not saying that we believe he exists and therefore commited yadda yadda yadda.we're wondering how so many people can believe in "God" when it's right in the bible ,your holy scripture, god commiting yadda yadda yadda giving orders for someone else to yadda yadda yadda.also,i don't believe you to be a simple minded fool.if you accept on blind faith what you believe,then yes ,in a way,that is what i believe.if you have questioned why you believe what you believe,and have come to the conclusion that that is what you want to believe,then no.that's not what i believe.

i had to check my page for that one.i suppose you mean about the exorcisms?that was an example of the measures certain "christians" will take.using scare tactics."god hates fags" "burn in hell" "burn in hell for all eternity" "eternal damnation" .the exorcism thing is an observation i made that day.you might even agree with me on that one.

i'm not saying anything about supposed "christians" killing in god and jesus' names.you probably saw that above.i'm talking about bible scripture.

i know that on my page,i don't make it clear that i don't talk about all christians.i probably should make it clear so people don't think that.i thought about it before,now i think i'll do it.i hope i've cleared that up.

the chance of that randomly happening?slim.do i believe it?no. i don't believe anything until it's been proven to me.meaning i believe it's been proven to me.

you keep bringing up marilyn manson.i know,i know,there's a few things about and of him on my site.i wasn't going to do that,but i found some stuff i liked.at first i didn't think i had anything on my site to do with him.then i realised,when i looked at my most recent picture on there,that lo and behold,i was wearing a mm t-shirt.oh well.but whether you like him or not,you have to admit that america has created god in the form of television.look at the couch potatoes.now there is a new god,the internet.technology is taking over the weak of mind.if were not careful,it will take over the world.anton lavey wrote a nice little essay on god being in the tv.

i don't expect you to believe anything.maybe in the next twenty years,there might be a G.U.T. (grand universal theory).

except for those that find themselves to be gods,i believe all the rest aren't ready to live without thinking they're being taken care of.no offence.also,even if they look for a god and find one.who's to say it would be the same god you worship and jesus,and if not,what then?

i beleive in reincarnation.i don't believe that i pay for my sins in my next life.if we do,perhaps it is because when we leave our bodies we are much more wiser and sane.free from the abberations of life as we live it now,and therefore decide to learn a lesson in our next life.do i believe that?no,it hasn't been proven to me.my point?the someone in charge could be ourselves.

just because i know of christ and have followed before in my life,and have since renounced him.does that mean that i'm forever doomed?just because i chose to follow what i felt to be true?let's say that at the last minute,god and jesus show their faces.then i realise they are real,is it too late to repent and not be punished?most christians think so.just because i won't believe in what cannot be proven to me.you seem to have a unique view.what do you think?by the way you did a good job answering that question.that's the first time i ever got an intelligent answer on that one.

until later,

Thank you for writing me back too. I enjoy a good discussion. I want to thank you for your attitude. I get a lot of people who think it is fun to try to intimidate me because I am a Christian. So they use a lot of four letter words. If they bothered to read my page they would know that I don't intimidate easily, I have seen and heard it all in my past. It is refreshing to discuss things with someone who seems straight forward and considerate. Thank you.

You say you don't mean to be talking about all Christians. Okay, but you have to admit when you say Christians it pretty well covers all of us. Now I will be the first person to tell you that there are a lot of people who call themselves Christian who don't even believe in Jesus Christ. Go figure.

I may jump around a little in my response, I hope you don't mind. Like I said in my last message I made a few assumptions. One assumption I made was that you came to my site from the link on the Marilyn Manson site. If you did not then you might be surprised to know that the Official Marilyn Manson site (the church) linked to my site. I am sure it was to ridicule my faith, but hey that is okay. The other reason I made that assumption was the picture on your site labeled "my sentiments exactly" I am sure you know the one I am talking about. But none of that really matters as far as our discussion.

I want to cover some of the short subjects before I launch into the main subjects if that is okay. I had trouble telling whether you believe evolution or not. On the one hand you said you don't believe everything happened by random actions, because you don't have proof, but then you said you do believe because it has been proved to you. If I misunderstood, I am sorry. If you did mean it has been proven to you, I would sure like to know how that happened. It is all a theory which has some very big holes. Even many of the people who teach it admit that the possibility of it being true are slim. Anyway I would love to hear the evidence that proved it to you. If I misunderstood, I am sorry.

Reincarnation fascinates me. I just don't understand how that can happen without a superior being. You must believe in a soul, or other whatever you want to call it, that enters another unborn baby. Where did that soul or whatever come from? What are the rules?? Why would a person choose to be a victim in their next life?? I know you don't believe what I do, but go with me on this for a moment. One reason people believe in reincarnation is that they can have visions of past lives. Now if I am right (that is Christians) and there is a fallen angel named Satan and he has many legions of demons (also fallen angels) with him. What would stop them from telling people about past events, after all they would have been present and would know all the facts. I will give you another example, I can't remember what the correct name for this is, but there is a study the government has been involved in. They have people who try to invision what is going on at a distant location. Often these people can do so, and it is proved later by people who were at the location these people described. Again, that makes sense to me, since demons can give those visions to people. My point is that I can believe that people have very real experiences, but I explain those experiences much differently than others do.

You talked about the TV being a god to many people. I agree. There are a lot of gods in this world. I still won't quote scripture to you, but that is what God was talking about when He said we are not to have any other gods before Him. He did not mean that there are other lesser gods, He was talking about anything that is more important to us than He is. No matter what that might be. It could be another person, the TV, food, sex, you name it.

Okay, I think I covered most of the side issues. I thought you might be talking about the Old Testament when you talked about God killing people and ordering people to be killed. This is a hard issue. Don't get me wrong it is not hard for me because I have studied the Bible and I think I understand, but people who refuse to believe who God is are going to have problems with it. I will try my best to explain, but I will tell you up front I can't do it justice in one short message. (well maybe not too short)

Well first you need to understand who I believe God is. I believe He is the creator of everything we know. I believe He has existed forever and will exist for ever to come. He created us out of nothing. He gave us a soul which will never die. He also gave us free choice to do what is right or what is wrong, to believe in Him or to not believe in Him. Sin was not in mans (meaning men and women) until they sinned in the garden of Eden. Once they sinned God, who is holy, demanded that the sin be paid for by death. But He loved us enough that He sent His Son to die for us. Okay there in a very small nut shell is the ground work.

Now since God is the creator, He does not have to answer for anything He does. If you raised dogs for a living and one litter turned out to be mean and kept biting you, would anyone blame you for destroying them?? We humans have such a high reguard for ourselves that we think God has no right to do with us as He sees fit. He sent His Son to die for us so that we could spend eternity with Him, then He allows us the choice whether to believe or not. That is all we have to do, believe. Why should He not punish those who refuse?

Okay back to the main point, what about the people in the Bible who were destroyed by God or His order. I will assume since you asked that question that you know at least some of the Bible stories. God chose the Jews (Israelite) as His people. Why? Well it was so that He could show all people His nature through them. He gave them everything. He provided for them. Time and time again He helped them, and time and time again they would turn their backs on Him. They were to be His show case to the world, so that the world would know Him. They did a bad job, and the other nations would not listen either.

Let's look at the time of the exodus when God brought the Israelite out of Egypt. Yes He told them to kill every living thing in some of the towns they attacked. But you have to look at why He told them that. He told them that because these people had rejected Him and were worshiping idols. He could have destroyed them Himself, but He told the Israelite to do it. It was as a test to see if they would follow His orders (which they seldom did) and because He knew (He told them this) that if they left any of them alive they (the Israelite) would end up being corrupted by those other people and would start also worshiping idols. Sure enough it happened.

God's judgment seems pretty tough, but if you look at it this way it might help you understand. I believe God was making a point. He had told everyone what He expected of them, by punishing some people He was trying to show others not to do the same things. Did it work? Not for a lot of people. Going back to what I said before, God really does not have to answer to us for what He does. We are much lower to Him then the dogs are to us. It is not something people like to think about, but it is true. We are arrogant enough to think that we can do what we choose and not have to answer to anyone, but boy let someone cross us and see how fast we want to punish them.

You asked my view of whether you are doomed because of your knowing Jesus and then turning your back. Again this is a hard question. On the one hand if you truly know that Jesus is God's Son and you reject Him then yes I think you are doomed. However, you claim that you don't believe in God, so my answer is that it is not too late yet. What I mean by that is, if you die without ever believing then you are doomed, period, but until that happens I believe you still have a chance. You said, if God or Jesus came and stood in front of you, you would believe. Well I don't think that is going to happen, but if you ever decide to believe then no I don't think your past will stand in the way.

Wow, sorry this got to be so long, but I want to give you an honest answer to your questions and that takes some explaining. I am sure I did not cover everything. I just want you to know I won't run away from any questions, but I do get side tracked sometimes.

Take care and I hope you hear from you again soon.

Ralph

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Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. 1 John 4:1-3

Please pray for these people. Pray that the Holy Spirit will continue to speak to them, and that they will find a true personal realationship with Jesus Christ.

Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? If you don't would you like to have?

Yes I would like to know Jesus.

No! I don't care!




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